www.waveski.info

Wisdom of the Masses

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:53

The waveski.info forums have covered a LOT of ground since 2004... so rather than leaving the reader to delve through the whole unmanaged lot, with all its ramblings, name calling, hair pulling and self promotion :) ... the "Wisdom of the masses" is presented here in an abridged format with just the key comments for your enjoyment and information. Posts may have been trimmed of unrelated content, but they haven't been altered (so enjoy the many and varied spelling mistakes). Opinions are all their own, chances are that mine would be different.

So, if you are a beginner, here is what the masses have had to say....

john

2004-06-12 12:47:00 15
You'll find the difference between a 9'2" plastic beginners ski and an intermediate level ski quite liberating - like going from a big 4x4 to a well tuned sedan (custom skis come in the Ferrari class). Though like anything, some skis are better than others. Cheers... John

john

2004-10-30 08:47:47 171 Waveski lengths vary from about 7' to 8'6" - depending on the riders weight and abilities (with longer skis better for beginners or heavier people).

bad-billy

2004-11-28 19:07:21 221 Thus I give my own personal reflections to let the beginners out there into a little secret don't try to go for a short board because the pro's are riding them. Get a longer board and get your paddle fitness up, learn to roll well, and think about longer custom performance boards if your taller or heavier than the pack. Catching more waves easier should be your goal. Then aim on style and performance. A nice 7'10" rounded pintail around 605mm wide with sharp rear rails for speed and holding in the face. Rounder rails from below my knees forward to smooth out the chop. a late nose lift for lift over the foam on paddle out or launching those airs. Quad Belt, Gath helmet, 0.5mm wetsuit and a thin shafted carbon fibre paddle. This summer is lining up nicely. Note: 600-605mm is for experienced riders only these width boards needs to under power always to be stable. Otherwise you'll fall over. Regards Brentt

bad-billy

2004-12-01 00:19:34 223 Also to all you novice/beginners - These comps can really be surprising. As with most things involving mother nature she often favours the under dog. Ive seen many a heat where a novice has taken out a seeded rider. And being a novice in the past it was a damn good feeling. So just remember you got to be in to win. Hey getting a ranking is quiet a buzz. you got to start somewhere. And the hype and moves going down are quiet inspirational. You go home and it shows you what is possible. Oh yeah and most of the hotshots are pensioners just like me. Regards Billy...

BazzaBrett

2004-12-10 10:01:09 236 Well Said Billy ! Short tippy and unstable boards will always require more perserverance, fitness and skill to surf competently on them and you are dead right that these are not what beginners should try to start out on ! The more stability you have when getting started will add to your level of enjoyment when catching waves and being able to paddle out the back and onto waves. Your enthusiasm will run parrallell with your enjoyment . Your level of enthusiasm will assist with your confidence in taking on more risky manouvres and that is when you may want ot start trying more sensitive performance boards. I believe that high performance boards should be something you aim to transition towards over time (and over a couple of boards) and as your surfing competency and fitness levels enable you to adapt. Make no mistake, the sensitivity experienced with extreme performance boards is something that all should try to experience and master. Having said that there are diffferent board shapes required for different conditions. The "short assed" performance skis would not be the best choice on those big days when you really need a gun ! Keep Surfing

Harrysk

2005-02-25 02:18:37 508 Hello All, To answer a couple of Bad-Billy?s questions: We make our seats pretty much the same height as a wave ski, maybe slightly lower for a bit of extra stability as you can?t hang your legs over the sides to take a break and you can always raise the seat with some padding. Extra height definitely gives you more power if you can handle it. When I sit in someone else?s kayak I feel like I?m in the bath, some playboat decks even get in the way of my paddling action ? horrible. I couldn?t tell you what the volume of a production surfkayak is but it is way to much. Sure it makes for easier paddling and more stability in the soup but there is no way you can do any sort of a duck dive without the risk of being throw all they way back to the beach, or worse, onto the reef? wipe-outs are definitely worse. On to promotion. Here, one of the major obstacles to kayakers taking up waveski (apart from the cold, kayaks are way warmer) is that if you ever see one and have the courage to have a go it?s generally a fairly high performance custom board and you just end up falling of all the time and get the impression that its next to impossible. For waveski to have a chance people need to have a go on a decent sized beginner ski. In fact, the best thing for introducing beginners to paddle sport must be a nice big spongy ski;...

john_archive

2005-02-26 22:51:22 545 I've never experienced or heard of knees/legs getting in the way (paddles yes, heads yes, shoulders even maybe) of either beginner or experienced waveskier, but I'll take a stab that maybe a kayaker used to using their knees to brace the side of the kayak (correct?) may be sticking said knees out on a waveski - in general on a waveski the knees stay pretty close together so the inside knee on a turn isn't too far from the outside knee which limits its reach. Otherwise, as Brett implies, you may want to check for non-oceanic related sources of the water :lol: - ie check the colour/odour.

bad-billy

2005-05-25 08:37:03 1086
Rolling is the most important aspect to enjoying surf. Nothing else you'll ever learn will equal learning to do this well. The Billy spent 6 months on the flat water before I even thought about hitting the waves. This was intentional and Ive never looked back. I still see the new beginners showing up and trying to tackle getting out the back and having to toss there tackle. If the persistance and pure guts they show tackling this task was spent learning to roll on the flat water they'd be out the back in a flash. When I first got to the line-up. All my waveski mates thought I was some new out of town hotshot. Flash new performance ski, paddled and rolled thru the line-up like I was a man on fire. Then I turned around and took off on my first wave. At this stage my waveski mates learnt I was a kook. My first flying crucifix and a collection of boardy's and tangled leg ropes on the inside had them in fits. Took them a few weeks to even say hello after that. But I could roll and the rest is billy history........... " get to the flat water and roll as much as possible. It matters" Regards Billy.

bad-billy

2005-06-05 01:32:00 1130
(Note: beginners - Paddling and rolling will be the 2 most important skills you'll ever need to enjoy wavesking. Don't get ahead of yourself and compromise these skills on a small, tippy performance ski. Go Big and down size as you get better.) Regards Billy.

steroidwaveyaker

2005-06-16 15:26:32 1358
Thanks LV I was hoping you fellows would put some momentum and experience behind the subject. John I sure wish you had posted that tidbit about the shallow paddle stroke sooner. You put into words what just connected in my brain during this afternoon?s flat water paddle session. I?ve noticed that every time I dig the paddle in deep for a power stroke I pull myself off balance and over I go. Today I concentrated on a faster stroke rate and just let the paddle kiss the water. Works real good. Hey Mosizely leaning forward like John said will force you to paddle in front of your knees. Plus your weight on the hip belt will pull the tail out of the water and on plane faster. Check out Cryptic meanings DVD in slomo (THEY ALL BE DOING IT) Also beginners in every discipline have a tendency to look or focus their eyes directly in front of the nose of their ski, mountain bike, or Honda FS 450; DON?T DO THIS, lift your head up and look at the horizon or well in front of your ski. By doing this you will engage the subconscious part of your brain that controls equilibrium this frees your front lobes for bigger processing jobs. I know this last part sounds like kookish psychobabble but the premise is solid, next time out ?think? about where your eyes are looking and force your head to look up. Anyway Mr. Mo keep asking questions, I learn something every time you do. And maybe Nick and the boys will give us some pointers on dropping in for that first carve. Cheers to all, JB

bad-billy

2005-06-16 16:43:35 1360
The tips from the crew will all aid in what seems an be an impossible task. That is why choosing a beginners ski to start with makes for a simple passage to riding waves. This is also the fastest way to become proficient with the basics. ie: rolling, duck diving, and paddling out. But if you have brought that ski and want to persevere heres a few tricks. - Move your seat\footwells position as far forward as possible. use the fist thumb rule for the space underneath your knees. - don't have a thick seat. (tall sides is ok height is not.) when paddling a waveski because of the short paddles and low volume ski's it is important to look at your paddling style. If youve just come out of a long fast kayak with a long paddle youve got to completely change your style. Paddling on a waveski is mostly done just in front of your knees with lots of low fast or powerful strokes. If your hands move above your chest youve lifted them to high. You reach out and pull back to by your ass then reach out again. There's very little follow thru to the tail of the ski. And your stokes don't sweep very wide away from the ski although you have to remember some of your strokes will become bracing strokes. It's not often you get into a rhythm but with concentration and determination you get very powerful. And with powerful paddling you then start to think about bouncing and climbing over the foam coming at you. Thats where this technique gives you another advantage. You are used to leaning forward and getting those fast strokes into the clean water on the other side of the foam. Just remember about the bounce before the white water. This is achieved with timing and a lot of luck. You get up speed and then just before the white water gets to you unweight your ass and lift the nose and try to bounce over the foam. Pick your waves we'll as this can turn very easily into the backwards somersault pass thru the pack. Also this paddling technique means when your paddling for a wave your body weight is forward and aids in pulling you over the lip. Followed by the lean back to stop nosediving. Hope this helps. Although this paddling style probably is a result of low bouyancy and very unstable ski's. Still - me back is sweet and I get out at Piha when it's big. Can't be all bad. Regards Brentt.

bad-billy

2005-06-27 23:59:52 1416
If your a beginner don't get onto a performance ski to early. Go for a more stable longer wider ski and enjoy learning the basics. Paddling out, Rolling and taking off. If you get a ski which is to short for your weight and skill level you will only hinder your enjoyment of what is a wonderful sport. This is one of the reasons alot of riders converting from Kayaks to waveski's think waveski's are pigs. The real problem is there enthuisiam and being too keen to rip on the waves and thus buying equipment that is beyond there entry level status. The learning curve using the right gear is short. Within a year it will all be behind you and you will smacking lips and pulling in. With the wrong gear you will be beached and dreaming.... All you can blame is your ego... A quote from the movie "The Edge" It's shame that kills you in the end. Some of the bigger customs and guns still perform really well. The more people that learn to start on bigger ski's the quicker our sport will grow. As those bigger boards will circulate as secondhand boards for future beginners etc...... Shore some coordinated freaks and midjets catch on really quick but for 95% of the sloggers - "Turtoise and the Hare" Regards Fat Billy......... Puck 2005-07-25 21:49:55 1612 Ok. But I reckon a deep seat is as important width. The problem with a lot of big volume beginner ski's is they're a real ball's to roll. Stable upright can also mean stable upside down. :lol:

lv10

2005-07-26 07:31:41 1620
Unfortunately the expectations of some beginners are unrealistic, and some "hottie's" forget how they struggled in their early days as well. :roll: There is no escaping that a wave ski is difficult to ride well, but not impossible over time. Compared to some other water sports it is easier to "get up and go" as a beginner on a ski than a surfboard or a sailboard. A wave is not a half-pipe, it's always changing and varies all around the world, in different sizes and conditions. This is one factor that some beginners/pros tend to forget, and [b:0184f76ece]poor positioning/wave knowledge [/b:0184f76ece]often is the real reason the performance limits of their craft of choice are hindered. This is an inescapable reality of learning in this (and most) sports. Naturally a shape that does not match the rider's talents will impede their respective learning curve. Some people are naturals and seem to pick it up easily, yet I know of a few people who haven't improved and have changed skis regularly over the last few years but the problem always seems to be the ski and not the pilot. :? Beginners and intermediate shapes have never been better and will continue to improve with input from Nick (Tsunami) and other creative shapers like Neil Decker, Larry Adams and even solo shapers such as Trav. As an eg. companies like Wavemaster have seen the tides of change since the seventies and improved their moulded range over time, incorporating performance benefits gleaned from their custom shapes. The sad truth is, more often than not, any reasonable shape is going to be restricted by the ability of the rider, so a shape for a beginner is more about maximising forgiveness (width, bevels, soft rails, low centre of balance, extra volume) to a reasonable level. Most of these favourable attributes will need to altered as the rider improves in ability. To expect a wide, fat-railed ski to rail around like a low volume rocket is a little fanciful. But conversely a low-volume rocket will struggle on a fat, choppy day, as well as becoming more difficult to paddle. So in keeping with the thread theme I believe it's about "horses for courses". The right ski will make it easier, but it still ain't gonna be a walk in the park. When it does become a walk in the park the things that helped you walk stop you from getting in to a run, and so it goes on. :twisted: The luxury option is to work with a custom shaper and get the right shape to suit the rider and the waves he/she surfs. The cheaper option is the moulded ski, keeping in mind the moulded ski is usually going to be a compromise of sorts. Improvements will always make moulded skis performance limits higher over time, but optimally a custom is always going to suit an individual more. To sum up my early morning rant, there is only so much that can be done to make a ski easy to ride without affecting it's performance at the top end. The bottom-line is you still have to be able to sit on it and paddle it out, and stay on it while on a wave. This something we all had to learn whether we liked it or not. Everyone is different so some may struggle, and nothing beats riding with other wave skiiers to learn more or fuel the passion. For those interested, I have an 8' thin pocket ski, a 7'9" pocket ski and an 8'2" performance barge with a thick wide nose that has 30mm bevels. I still want an another pocket surfing ski (it never ends) but I know the barge I shaped is the ski to pull me out of the shit when conditions get crappy, big or small. :wink: And it is the barge I tend to ride socially more than the others because it has all the performance features in moderation with stability, volume and length. Basically it is more user-friendly. Practice, practice, don't get too far ahead of yourself and above all have fun. 8) PS. sorry about the length of this reply but I've been at work for 3hrs waiting for the next crew to start at 6:30am, so I may have waffled on a bit. And if it makes any beginner feel better rolling still sucks no matter how good you get. :wink:

tsunami-man

2005-07-27 09:53:42 1629
The sit on top is usually made hollow so the design has to hold the bottom-shape and be self supporting. This means the bottom shape is usually NOT a planing shape like a surfboard, windsurfer, kiteboard, wakeboard , etc... This flat type bottom shape works well for surf as can be seen by its usage worldwide in many areas. Sit on tops (in my opinion ) are hopeless in the surf but great for general paddling and flat water fun. They are hard to turn and not as responsive as a waveski type in the surf. They are also VERY heavy !! ...

bad-billy

2005-08-09 23:26:37 1763
Low volume ski's force late takeoffs and critical bottom turns. Having to do both has been the norm for me for the last 6-8 months. There nothing more exilarating then taking off and having the lip pitching over your shoulder but alas Ive been taking off and had a few lips pitch over my head and smack onto my nose. You very quickly learn the art of the late drop. Blind spots on your ski - You gauge the waves accent and at the last minute you turn and paddle your ass off. Your Blind and youve misjudged the wave sucking up behind you. So what do you do. Lets get the pros talking. I first check there is not a sneaker set wave in the set. I then commit to the wave of my choice and paddle into the zone. When I paddle I make shore I dig deep and dont piss around. I find taking off is the most critical time that sets up my next move. So I aim for maximum speed off the bottom. I may go straight down or head along the face but I do it at speed. Why - Because usually I'm air hunting or looking for speed for a cut back. My main concern is that of committing. Because if I miss the first wave and it's big I'm left vulnerable in the zone. At the mercy of that sneaker set. Thats why catching the wave of my choice is important. These rules also apply to beginners. Pick a wave and dont piss around. Go for it because if you miss it you may be left in the zone And thats where you'll get wacked and waste a lot of time paddling out. Billy Tip. Your thoughts. Regards Billy

Puck

2005-09-07 21:26:34 1962
If you're looking for a simple test. Here's the best I can do. For a ski designed for a beginner or intermediate waveskier... With the rider sitting on it. It should float with the deck about 1 or 2inches above the water. It should float so that it is reasonably level. Is that OK.

Obi-John

2005-09-12 16:28:50 2032
If you are comfortable with the idea, consider unbuckling by grasping the tail end of the belt, rather than the buckle. This is the approach that WaveMaster demonstrates in their beginner instructional video. Obviously, try it a few times upright to make sure that it works for you. John

BazzaBrett

2005-10-06 15:19:11 2157
Hi I beg to differ from Roy's opinion about starting with your fins right forward and progressivley moving them back (towards the tail) until you don't slide out anymore 8O That can be simply dangerous to yourself and others in the water with you. I recommend [u:40d82900f2]starting them at the back[/u:40d82900f2] and moving them progressivley forward (i.e. towards the nose of your ski) no more than 5mm increments at a time. At least then you have some element of control over your board (albeit maybe a bit stiff to turn at first) this is better instead of it unexpectedly "sliding out" at critical moments and placing you in potentially dangerous situations. Keep moving them forward 5mm at a time until you do "slide out" for the first time ! Then you will know the board is too loose with the fins that far forward. So simply retrace your last positioning of them. I know this is all relative to where the fin boxes or mounts are situated in relation to your seating on the board, but I would still adopt the above approach first no matter what waveski I was trying to set fins up for ! I know that for experienced waveski surfers, finding the optimum fin positions can be a little more easier. So my above advice is targeted at beginners and those that are still going through "trial & error" learning curves. Keep Surfing

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