www.waveski.info

waveyak

2005-10-26 12:43:46 2411
I attached thigh straps to my Wavemaster StabComp and they were great. Having your knees fixed is no disadvantage if that is what yuo are used to (kayaker), and turning is achieved by lifting your rail which they facilitate well. I found the big 2.6 Stb Comp too wide and chunky to lift the rail or roll without the extra leverage of the thigh straps. Check out the posts on quad-belts, thigh straps are just a more primitive version of this system and provide the same benefits with the added benefit for beginners of being easy to release when upside down and panicky. They work well on plastic SOT's to hold you in the kayak when paddling or landing in surf, and while I am not claiming any performance here - I have surfed a perception swing on crumbly ocean swells and been (just) able to turn and manoeuvre slightly with the aid of knee straps (and it scares the sh*t out of surfers). I think they are ideal for learners or kids, as you get that attachment to the ski that allows you to manoeuvre (rather than the usual of removing/not using the lap belt) with the safe feeling of easy release. When I was a kid of about 11, a friend was paddling my ski on a lake and did up the belt, flipped and had no idea/sense to release it. He was pretty close to gone by the time anyone noticed the upside down ski - he wasn't even struggling anymore. We DID get there in time!

Trav

2005-10-27 11:25:43 2434
If you have a ski that turns really easy there is no need to have a huge seat pad. If you have a really deep seat well you may like to use a thick pad for comfort and ass hugging or if you have a very stable ski you may make it turn more easily by having a huge seat pad (Nick Boon comes to mind). My preference in relation to the side on deck profile is that I sit between 10mm - 15mm lower than the deck line, My seat well is about 30mm deep at the lowest point so the base thickness of my pad is around 15mm. I've found once you have a craft that turns well it is just as important for it to be stable to ride out of the critical situations that you can now manoeuvre into. I ride skis with width of 23inch-24inch Sticking bitts of foam together and thicker pads will hold a bit more water= weight. Sitting higher is only really a modification to a beginner ski once balance is no longer an issue or if you have bought a ski that doesn't quite live up to performance expectations more seat hight may be a last resort.

steroidwaveyaker

2005-10-27 12:28:49 2435
The closer I get my cheeks to the deck of the waveski the more in tune I feel with the ski. As a beginner control means keeping the ski in an upright manner on the paddle out and into the take off. Once I?m on a wave I can see where the higher seat would give someone more leverage for putting his ski on a rail and then transferring that weight to the opposite rail when needed. But let?s face it if you spend a lot of time in the pit because of a high seat you?re not going to get a lot of time on the green...

BazzaBrett

2005-10-27 16:31:42 2437
Hey I agree with some of what Trav says i.e. "Sitting higher is only really a modification to a beginner ski once balance is no longer an issue or if you have bought a ski that doesn't quite live up to performance expectations more seat hight may be a last resort" But in my experience if a board turns well to begin with it then would not hurt to play around with the seat height a bit. Lets assume you get all your belt mounts, footstraps, fin placements and even the position of the seat all in the sweet spots and the board turns fine. The only thing left to try and adjust is the seat height. You may not want to becasue you have the board just humming along fine. So my question is what do you have to lose by trying a bit more elevation in the seat. Sure, the higher you go the more your balance will be challenged, but I would also suggest you may get a more sensitive turning board as a result. If it doesn't work, then just revert back to your previous seat height because you already know the board turns fine. I suppose it is a matter of finding the extremes of what will and wont work with your board. But don't just chicken out either and keep your ability at a beginners level by reverting to the easier choice. If you balance is good at the lowere level challenge it a little bit. Then you may be preparing yourself for a higher performance board. I also suggest finding the optimum height of the seat can possibly improve upon an already great performing board. After all, we are all different body lengths and have varying heights/reach above the water. I guess the same board could suit two very different people but with very different seat heights for each. Generally, once I have found the right level I don't need to change it. Whether I've been in small surf or big. I know what my comfort level and ability is so I rarely need to change it. Having said that, each of the different boards in my quiver have different seat heights.

bad-billy

2005-11-12 17:17:47 2641
The sharp rails hold in the face more... aid in water release for speed.. and also aid in those tight carvy cutbacks... but in some conditions they can also catch without warning. That is where the fuller rounder rails cut in. There more forgiving and in combination with the sharper rear rails they balance up the feel. There are so many variations to rail design to ponder. But if your a novice the fuller rounder rails in the front of your knees will be more forgiving while your tuning your skills. Then there's how chamfered or belled your rear rails are. This can aid when your cranking it over. If the angle at the rear is too vertical it can sometimes when pushed hard cause you to plane on the rear side wall. Not a pretty problem as this is where you lose all traction. Beginners boards usually have more vertical rear walls to aid in stabilty. Again compromise and talking to your shaper becomes critical. Don't shape a hi-performance ski just because thats what all your mates have. Be honest with yourself and design to your level and strenghts. Ive been riding a big red fire engine with fat rails up front and mellow rails in the rear. But she has a fast rocker and planshape. I paddle around with my feet in the footstraps without blinking because she's so stable. But guess who gets more than there fair share of waves. I get to paddle around my mates as were paddling out and I paddle in way earlier than them.. Big red also doesn't miss many waves. So what Ive given away in turning Ive got back big time in waves ridden. With all the extra speed, if I line her up just right she fly's great. And it's nice not to have to take late drops because of lack of paddle speed. She's big a little slower to turn compared to my short boards but also fun on the right day. Regards Billy.

Trav

2005-11-14 22:49:26 2697
I believe a ski should be designed around the seating position and work outward from there :!: :!: ...

flipper

2005-11-29 02:49:31 2888
...taken from john cullen's waveski wisdom site: Blade offset angle Blade offset affects your paddling efficiency. If you are a beginner try to start off with an offset of 90 degrees. There are many advantages to a blade offset of 90 degrees, they are as follows: No wind resistance to free blade - a definate bonus! Easier to eskimo roll as there is only resistance at the end you need it! If you need to brace suddenly the free blade is always flat and ready. The natural movement always presents the blade to the water correctly. When bursting through breaking waves the free blade is edge on therefore offers little resistance. Ergonomically more efficient Readily available [NOTE: The only reason to choose a blade offset of around 0 degrees is that that is what your used to. If you believe you can adapt, do so. I had to borrow a paddle with an 90 degree offset compared with my usual 85 degrees. I noticed the difference the first time I tried to eskimo roll!] ...

bad-billy

2005-12-11 01:46:39 3163
It should be noted beginners are more likely to nosedive compared to the advanced riders.... this is more a right of passage.... So beginners ski's need to be bulletproof...

genoprovolone

2006-08-09 01:05:39 6481
so yesterday I paddled out at squan. I noticed a freind of that girl in the lineup and paddled over to her. I told her that I am not here to make anyone uncomfortable and will try to give her enough space to feel at ease. I asked her to convey my sentiments to her freind. seemed to go nicely. A few minutes later I got a shock when another waveski pulled up next to me. The guy older and rides real well for a newbie. he said he saw me playing in the surf and liked the ride so he bought a ski. turns out (after a good conversation) he was one of the instrumental players in getting the beaches opened to surfing in the 60's. Back then the fishermen refused to acknowledge the rights of bordies to play at the inlet. There was a big brew-ha-ha over access to this very location. I found it poinant that the story has come full circle in a generation. The solution then was a comprimise to allow surfing during low tide, and fishing at high. But over the years the lines have blurred, now, no one cares. the point is probobly that- those who object feel threatened. Some time later, I strted talking to a girl named Hillary who expressed dissatisfaction with the crowd at the break. Her opinion was stated perfectly... the problem is beginners who don't see the danger in "practicing" in the crowded lineups. ANY surf vehicle that is out of control is a hazard. She related to me that the week before she was skegged across the back by a longboardie who bailed on his board and did not even use a leash. A couple waves later a dude pearled(right next to us)went face down and his ride popped up in the air and landed about 6 inches form her head. She was LIVID!!! and deservedly so. Just thought I would update this post with some stories to warm the heart.

jackied

2006-08-09 12:37:55 6492
Mornin' Possums, (6.5metre swell today, and I have to work!!!) knock off time in about 6 hours Anyway back to this thread. Okay, I have been surfing at a break in Perth - Cottesloe, Isolators on and off for the best part of 15 years. So I consider myself pretty much a local (I even etched my name in the wet concrete where the council put a beach shower). During the last 10 years the break has been surfed more and more by Mals and much less by waveski surfers. I wouldn't say Mals have taken over the break per se rather that there are less and less waveskiers out in the water. So, Who owns the Break? Is it the guy who rocked up 15 minutes before you and claims top spot in the lineup or is it the person who leads by example - respects the tribal surf laws and surfs like a demon. One would think it is the latter. Butttttt no that doesn't happen here in Perth at this break. It seems it's the drongo who happens to be a tourist (I have nothing against tourists), who has paid his $80 at the local surf shop and wants to make sure he gets value for his hour out in the surf - with a 'stuff the rest of you' attitude. So where is this story leading to; suss out the opposition. My strategy is this; anyone with pasty looks (even Japanese tourists can look pasty), wearing a wetsuit that doesn't really fit but looks a bit worn, and doesn't understand the local lingo (mate f... off!) needs to be treated as 'well you can have one wave and let's see how you surf it'. If you stuff it up, back to the end of the lineup and I take the dominant role (equality is alive and kicking in Oz). If you surf it 'okay' then I say 'gee you surfed that well', the chest then expands, the smile is very broad and he/she then says 'good vave, ja!' We then have a little chat, not too familiar mind you and then the session is a bit of the old 'are you taking this wave, or sets are coming, are you going left or right'. I try and avoid the 'mongrel stink eye' approach however you only get one chance to make a mistake with me - first drop-in, I give them the benefit of the doubt - I didn't see you or I thought you were going left. Second drop-in 'Mate are you blind', Third drop-in 'what's the story'. I haven't got to the fourth drop-in as I am too busy working out which car they drive so I can let down their tyres. I guess at the end of the day what I notice is this when the surf is big and out of control, beginners take on a survival approach. As a consequence, their awarenesss of other surfers is very limited and this is where accidents happen and courtesy out in the surf disappears. Everyone is jostling for the best spot and to avoid getting cleaned up. The times that I have had an altercation (which is not a lot) has left a bitter taste in my mouth and doesn't compensate for the good waves I might have had. It has at times ruined the rest of my day and I have often wondered upon reflection 'what does that'. It's probably due to my perspective of the ocean (calming yet invigorating). Over the years I have become a little more tolerant of others. There is still the occasion when I have had other things on my mind and probably have had a different personna out in the surf. So, the moral to my story is that saying 'hello' to a newbie and being a friend can bring a whole different experience for a surf session. Thanks and have a good one. Jackied :lol:

BazzaBrett

2006-08-24 22:13:49 6636
Hi all Thought I'd throw a reply in here too. I understand that Dekka's personal offset to his paddle blades is closer to 30 degrees than anything else. JackieD - I'd say be very cautious about a sudden switch from a "right hand" offset to a "left hand" offset ! Consider how awkward it felt for you when you put the wrong paddle in your board cover and inadvertantly had an offset you hadn't used for years. Some people can quickly adapt to different offsets (whilst still keeping their primary paddle grip at a "fixed" right hand offset). Also consider that with a fixed grip (left or right hand) offset you ALWAYS have one hand that manitains a fixed permanent grip whilst the opposite hand allows a slight rolling "within the grip itself" to compensate for the offset during the paddlestroke. If after years of having a fixed "right hand" offset one suddenly changes to a fixed "left hand" offest I'd say be prepared to feel like a beginner again when it comes to learning the new (i.e. opposite) paddling technique let alone learning the eskimo roll again. But if a person does this change successfully, then they show a high capability to adapt and learn new techniques (how long depends on perseverence!). As for adjustability factor in paddles I see this maybe relevant to white water paddling but not so much to do with surfing on a waveski. Sure one can adjust offsets to the blades and even shaft lengths but nobody has yet explained what circumstance or situations the "adjustability" factor comes into playwhen surfing a waveski in waves ? But hey the paddle can always go to someone else with different arm lengths and paddle offset preferences. In any case, paddle adjustability does not relate to blade size/surface area ! Unless someone comes up with adaptable blade shapes too! Both JackieD & LV10 have diffrernt size blades for different reasons. (i.e one says they're too big, the other says they're too small). Width of the paddle blade is a factor in itself and THAT is the principle behind getting customised paddles too. Having said that, I have used different lengths and offsets over the years and each has just been a case of becoming familiar with the nuances of that particular paddles characteristics but realising your own personal likes and dislikes [u:5013e5d41b]relevant to your own physiology[/u:5013e5d41b]. Combine this with the fact different lengths require subtle but different body positions when paddling and executing moves too. But generally, lighter is better as long as strength in the paddle isn't compromised. Thats why carbon/kevlar shafts and blades rate highly simply because we need more speed in paddle placement too when initiating moves on the waves in addition to just paddling out the back. Here's other threads too with more discussions on paddles -

bad-billy

2006-12-04 12:32:45 7292
IV10:[quote:627f1fcdc5]Still paddles well, lower bouyancy in tail actually lends more control paddling over whitewater and flicking off the lip. No stability issues. [/quote:627f1fcdc5] The lower bouyancy ski's can seem stable possibly due to their lower centre of gravity... as they sit lower in the water... Getting the mix right for your body size and weight is the real juggle... As the ski's get shorter subtle positioning on your ski become paramount.. Having too much bouyancy is possibly worse than not having enough... If you don't have enough you paddle slow and if there isn't enough behind you their bloody hard to roll without the nose lifting... (The fitter hot-shots with an awesome roll compensate to some extents for the performance gains sitting closer to the tail gives you.) Which is a trap novices, unfit beginners fall into... Going for performance over stabilty at the expense of common sense and a progressive training equipment strategy... One of the things Ive noticed on my latest ski as I lost a few Kg's was how I was able to move back a little at a time.... From my initial position Ive crept back about 80-100mm... Some of this has been striving to loosen up the tail and the obvious becoming familiar with my ski... But without the weight loss the nose used to lift when I was rolling in the position I'm now in..... What has also happened is having less tail bouyancy behind me has stabilised my take offs from the earlier position I was in. I used to find having more tail behind used to get corky and lift me in big foamy's... With less nose in front of me and all that bouyancy behind me it was very intersting in the reform.... Amazing how much you learn about a ski over time.... Billy BazzaBrett 2006-04-17 18:07:31 5109 I have never really got back round to finishing the rest of this thread off properly :!: Remembering that my original intent was to cover ALL of these topics - 1.Footstraps 2.Seat pad 3.Seat Belts 4.Fins 5. Seat Pad Height (new addition) Seeing as though Footstraps has been covered pretty much, it really is about time some more information was grouped together within this thread about positioning [b:31d970fe06]SEATPADS[/b:31d970fe06] ! Whilst there are MANY opinions, theories and philosophies about seat pads, [u:31d970fe06]the intent of this thread is to assist any newcomers or beginners when setting up their ski for the first time[/u:31d970fe06]. [i:31d970fe06][b:31d970fe06]Note[/b:31d970fe06][/i:31d970fe06] - [i:31d970fe06]with some waveskis that possess fully adjustable seating positions COMBINED with fully adjustable footstrap positions you may need a bit more time to find the optimum positions which compliment performance[/i:31d970fe06]. Consider this ! Usually the placement of our seat pads is determined by where our footstraps are (also based on the notion that you have purchased a board suitable to your weight and leg length). So the placement of the seat should be simple :?: [u:31d970fe06]As a general rule[/u:31d970fe06], move your seat pad (forward or back) in relation to your footstraps so that your knees are not too high up (i.e. stability issues) or that your legs are not too flat (i.e. due to added lower back stress and the fact you're not using the quad muscles in your legs effectively). It is best to temporarily affix your seatpad so you have the option of adjusting its position later if you have not got it feeling right first time. Something else to consider :idea: Usually when initially placing the seat on your board and sitting on it to test it, you are on dry land ! Yet, you really do not have any sense of how the bouyancy properties of the board (when in the water) may effect its ultimate position. Often what may feel good on dry land with the position of a seat pad does not feel good in the water ! At least your tail may sink in the water where it won't on dry land! Which also affects your sense of sitting "uphill" or "downhill" in relation to the height of your feet. As [u:31d970fe06]another general rule[/u:31d970fe06], it is best to start with a LOW seat pad! Do not start with one that is too high (again due to stability issues). You can always add more height to a seat later and AFTER you have found the optimum position. Generally, on my high performance waveskis I often only adjust (or add to) the height of my seat pads as the LAST step of ALL my tuning/set up options. This of course takes a few sessions in the water (hopefully with similar surf conditions) to be able to compare the changes I have made. There will be a limit to how high a seat can become before performance sensitivity and effectiveness is compromised ! However, the above prinicples remain the same towards beginner, intermediate and high performance boards. I'm sure there will be some more replies to this post but in the meantime, consider some of the below threads that also occur in relation to seatpads here at Waveski.info

Trav

2006-04-21 19:06:24 5157
For a beginner style ski like the Stab. comp you will most probably need small fins because the ski isn't designed to go from rail to rail with ease. to avoid sliding and to maximise drive out of turns look for a fin with a long rake where the trailing edge at the top of the fin extends further back than normal.

bad-billy

2006-05-25 23:29:00 5563
With the xtra paddle power we have and our ability catch waves earlier it is really important we follow all the classic surf rules. Don't drop in. Always look on your inside. If you do drop in apolygise profusely. (once a month is too much... sort yourself out.) When you come across a fellow skier breaking the rules. sort him out and tell him the rules. Some people have no idea. We all hate kooks that don't follow the rules. We are no different. As a minority sport we are going to catch some flak. So it's important we give extra effort to fit in. Or we will unfortunately be belittled by democracy. There's more of them. Give a few waves away if your a hotty or go surf earlier or somewhere by yourself if you know your a wave pig. (Guilty) But most importantly remember we all need to educate all the beginners we come across. Another point why is it waveskiers hate kayakers. Being honest the lack of control they have with no fins. Alienates them even from us. I have mates who will paddle the other way and drop twitwit remarks amongst themselves when one paddles out. And we wonder why we have problems. We carry a paddle and fall from the same tree. And we expect the surfers to embrace us. Weve got alot of work to flick the "beekeepers of the ocean tag". Billy.

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